What kind of "Christian" would interpret Jesus' words
to mean that he expected his followers to
devote themselves heart, soul and mind to . . .
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a) the kind of god who was mean to children ?
b) the kind of god who was mean to women ?
c) the kind of god who was mean to the handicapped?
d) the kind of god who was mean to the enslaved ?
e) the kind of god who went against his own teaching NOT to kill ?
f) the kind of god who recommended and/or tolerated cannibalism ?
g) the kind of god who couldn't control his temper ?
h) the kind of god who had many other character flaws :
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a) the kind of god who was mean to children ?
- the bible says "god" punished children severely just for making fun of a bald man? ( 2 Kings 2:23-24 )
- God promotes the physical abuse of children. ( The following quotations come from the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible: )
- Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
- Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
- Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
- Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beateth him with the rod, he shall not die."
- Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
- Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."
- An additional verse from the New Testament is occasionally cited as justification for physical punishment of children:
Hebrews 12:6-7: "...the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son. Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?"
http://nospank.net/floggers.htm is a web site featuring examples of Conservative Christians being motivated by the bible to abuse children.
b) the kind of god who was mean to women ?
- according to the bible, "god" demanded 16,000 virgins be given to soldiers as war plunder ? and
- according to the bible, "god" demanded 16 virgins be set aside for himself?(Num. 31:31-40)
- according to the bible, "god" required an unbetrothed virgin to marry her seducer? (Ex. 22:16)
- according to the bible, "god" required a woman to marry her rapist? ( Deut. 22:28-29)
- according to the bible, "god" required that a woman found not be a virgin on her wedding night be stoned to death, at her father's front door? (Deut. 22:20-21.)
- according to the bible, "god" sanctioned the degradation of the enemies' women? ( Deut. 21:10-13)
- according to the bible, "god" caused adultery? (2 Sam. 12:11-12)
- according to Numbers 5:11-31, "god" recommended a barbaric prescription to expose a wife's adultery, but nothing comparable for husbands.
- according to Leviticus 12:1-4, , "god" said that mothers who give birth to a boy are "unclean" for a week ? ( )
- according to Leviticus 12: 5-8, "god" said that mothers who give birth to a girl are "unclean" for two weeks.
- according to Leviticus 15:19-30 and Leviticus 20:18, "god" considered women's menstruation disgraceful.
A good Christian scholar friend of mine who has read the Koran twice,and who has given the matter much more thought than I, tells me that much of the violence that has been perpetrated in the name of Islam over the centuries has more likely been inspired by the "Old Testament" texts that I am highlighting on this page, which Muslims share with Judaism and Christianity, than by the more peace-loving and peace-promoting teaching of the Koran of Mohamed, which is unique to Islam.
If that is true, then Muslims and Jews should join with Christians in warning their followers not to embrace this violent, arbitrary, irrational and/or unjust "god", (who inspires attitudes like the following :)
c) the kind of god who was mean to the handicapped?
- According to Leviticus 21:16-23, God didn't want any handicapped person near him:
" The LORD spoke to Moses, saying:
'Speak to Aaron and say: No one of your offspring throughout their generations who has a blemish may approach to offer the food of his God. For no one who has a blemish shall draw near, one who is blind or lame, or one who has a mutilated face or a limb too long,
or one who has a broken foot or a broken hand,
or a hunchback, or a dwarf, or a man with a blemish in his eyes or an itching disease or scabs or crushed testicles.
No descendant of Aaron the priest who has a blemish shall come near to offer the Lord's offerings by fire; since he has a blemish, he shall not come near to offer the food of his God.
He may eat the food of his God, of the most holy as well as of the holy.
But he shall not come near the curtain or approach the altar, because he has a blemish, that he may not profane my sanctuaries; for I am the LORD.'
d) the kind of god who was mean to the enslaved ?
- according to Ex. 21:20-21. &
Deut. 22:20-21 "god" sanctioned the beating of slaves as long as they could arise at least a day or two after the beating.
e) the kind of god who went against his own teaching NOT to kill ?
- According to Lev. 26:14-22, "If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
- (According to Hosea 13:16, :)
4 "Yet I have been the LORD your God ever since the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior. . .
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
- See all of these instances of God being portrayed by the bible as doing killing himself, or ordering human beings to kill other human beings ( not all of whom have done anything to earn capital punishment ):
Num. 16:31-35,
Num. 11:1,
Num. 21:6,
Deut. 32:39-43,
Psalms 135:10,
Isaiah 66:16,
Jer. 13:14,
Joshua 10:10-11,
1 Sam. 5:9,
Psalms 136:17-18,
Hosea 9:16,
Amos 2:3,
Ex. 4:24,
2 Sam. 6:6-7
, and 2 Kings 5:7
. Lev. 26:7-8,
Num. 25:4-5,
Num. 25:17,
Deut. 20:16-17,
Joshua 10:40,
Ezek. 9:5-6,
1 Sam. 15:3,18
Also note: Ex. 32:27-28,
Num. 21:34-35,
Num. 31:7-8,
Num. 35:19-21,
and Jer. 48:10.
- And God supposedly killed the righteous along with the wicked : Ezek. 21:3-4 .
- God mandated unlimited punishment for limited sins: Matt. 25:46.
Also Rev. 14:11
and Mark 9:43-48.
- according to 1 Sam. 6:19-20, "god" killed a large number of people simply because they couldn't control their curiosity about the contents of the ark of the covenant.
- according to the bible, "god" called for the death penalty for all those failing to observe the sabbath commandment? [ This has so many ramifications that we devote a whole web page to it at sabbathobservance.html.]
"Murderers are punished unless they
kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-The French atheist philosopher Voltaire
f) the kind of god who recommended and/or tolerated cannibalism ?
- according to Jeremiah 19:9, "I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend." --
- according to Ezekiel 5:10,
"Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers." --
- according to Lev. 26:29
and Deut. 28:53-7, "ye shall eat the flesh of your sons and daughters." --
g) the kind of god who couldn't control his temper ?
Deut. 13:17 Hosea 1:2,
Judges 3:8,
Psalm 21:9,
2 Sam. 24:1,
1 Kings 16:26,
Nahum 1:2,
2 Kings 13:3,
Ex. 32:10,
Num. 11:1,
Num. 16:46,
Num. 32:13-14,
1 Kings 14:9,
1 Kings 15:30,
1 Kings 16:2,
1 Kings 16:7,
1 Kings 16:13,
2 Chron. 34:25,
Psalm 18:7
and Jer. 44:6.
h) the kind of god who had many other character flaws :
- according to the bible, "god" made false and unfulfilled prophecies? ( Gen. 17:3, 8 and Ex. 32:13).
- according to the bible, "god" delivered a holy man ( Job }, and most of his family, into Satan's hands, just to prove a point in an argument?Job 2:6.
- according to ( Judges 1:19, "god" is not omnipotent or all powerful, as claimed in the bible.
- according to the bible, "god" was often jealous? ( See details in a separate tab
- according to the bible, "god" played favorites, to the point of causing tremendous strife between one human tribe (the Jews) against many others throughout the world? (a strife now perpetuated between "Christians" - who believe they have been chosen to replace the Jews in God's heart and who are destined for "salvation", while non-Christians are destined for "eternal damnation".) ( See details in a separate tab
- according to the bible, "god" punished many innocent people for the acts of other guilty persons? ( Gen. 3:14-16, .Gen. 20:18)
- according to the bible, "god" broke up families? (Ex. 21:2-4 )
- according to ( Hosea 4:14, "god" excused the sins of prostitutes and adulterers.
- according to the bible, "god" excused a murderer and promised him protection? ( Gen. 4:13-15.)
- according to the bible, "god" aided rather than punished a swindler? ( Gen. 28:14-15)
- according to the bible, "god" prevented people from hearing his words (
Isaiah 6:10, &
Rom. 9:18, &
Matt. 13: 13-14 )
- according to the bible, "god" deceived people ( Jer. 20:7)
- according to the bible, "god" trained people for war ( Psalm 144:1 )
- according to the bible, "god" intentionally gave out bad laws (Ezek. 20:25 )
- according to the bible, "god" violated his own laws on numerous occasions ( See details in a separate tab
- according to the bible, "god" took credit for creating evil, as well as good ( Isaiah. 45:7)
When good old Abe Lincoln said �My greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right�, was he talking about this God? Was he saying that everything that "god" supposedly did above was "right"? Unfortunately, people who think it was O.K. for "god" to act so abominably are likely not to see anything wrong with acting that way themselves, as was said so well by these great thinkers:
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man."
the American philosopher - Thomas Paine -
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as they do
when they do it from religious conviction"
the French philosopher - Blaise Pascal - (1670). |
Christians who don't know that there are serious problems with
the way their Bible describes GOD, simply don't know their Bible.
The following are more references for the above problems: |
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If many "bible-believing" people find this list of atrocious behavior attributed to "God" in the bible surprising, perhaps even unbelievable, it is probably because their clergy don't even read the bible themselves and if they do, they don't take the bible as a whole as seriously as they claim. Consider the following, for example, Despite the fact, that conservative clergy claim to believe that the bible is "the Word of God" and that the bible emphasizes that the penalty for breaking Commandment IV is death, no such clergy in living memory has demanded that people failing to observe the sabbath be killed. Yet, that is what the "God's Word" clearly requires, (as I spell out in great detail at sabbathobservance.html).
Conservative clergy, on the other hand, do selectively take some parts of the bible very seriously. But remarkably, it is usually in instances when the scripture doesn't strike very close to themselves or people close to them, as when heterosexual clergy proclaim those whose sexual orientation is different from their own (i.e. gays) are hell-bound if they fail to repent and become heterosexuals like themselves (an issue I deal with extensively at God&gays.html;).
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Although one of his principal commandments is "Thou shalt not kill," this God does an awful lot of killing himself, and often directs m any human beings to kill many other human beings :
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On the day he was made a cardinal, the future revolutionary Pope John Paul the First gave this daring advice to a youth group: "Never be afraid to stand up for what is right, whether your adversary be your parent, your peer, your teacher, your politician, your preacher, or even your God."
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- God was often jealous: "I the Lord thy God am a jealous God. . ." Deut. 5:9,
Ex. 20:5
. "For the Lord thy God is a jealous God among you. . ." Deut. 6:15
.See also: Ex. 34:14,
Deut. 4:24,
Deut. 29:20,
Psalms 78:58,
Ezek. 16:38,
Ezek. 36:5-6
and Joshua 24:19.
- God repents. Even though 1 Sam. 15:29
( "the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent" says that god never repents, the following verses say the opposite.
According to Gen. 6:6, for example, " the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. "
Ex. 32:14,
1 Sam. 15:11,
1 Sam. 15:35,
Jer. 26:3,
Jer. 18:8.
- God practices injustice: Ex. 4:22-23,
Num. 14:18,
Deut. 23:2,
Deut. 28:32,
Joshua 22:20,
2 Sam. 12:14
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- God played favorites: We are told in 2 Chron. 19:7
that, ". . .there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts." Yet, that is clearly disproved by the following comments. "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God has chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth." Deut. 7:6,
Deut.14:2,
1 Sam. 12:22,
1 Chron. 17:22,
Isaiah. 52:6,
Matt. 15:24,
John 4:22,
Gen. 4:4-5.
- according to Ex. 34:7 & 2 Sam. 12:11-12, "god" punished children for their father's sins.
- According to Exodus 34: 6-7) "The Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. . . does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."
- according to Deuteronomy 23:2, "god" not only barred "bastards" from the assembly of the Lord because of their illegitimacy, but extended the same discrimination against ten generations of a "bastard's" descendants as well :"No one born of a forbidden marriage (no "bastard") nor any offspring from such a marriage may enter the assembly of the LORD, not even in the tenth generation."
If this verse is taken seriously (which Conservatives must do, if they take the scriptures as seriously as they claim), then these are the inevitable consequences :
- Not only are all the "bastard" children of the faithful to be unjustly punished (for something they had no power over), but
- all of their children, as well (2nd generation)
- their grand-children, as well (3rd generation)
- their great-grand-children, as well (4th generation)
- their great-great-grand-children, as well (5th generation)
- their great-great-great-grand-children, as well (6th generation)
- their great-great-great-great-grand-children, as well (7th generation)
- their great-great-great-great-great-grand-children, as well (8th generation)
- their great-great-great-great-great-great-grand-children, as well (9th generation)
- their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grand-children, as well (10th generation)
(which could number into the hundreds, if not thousands, of offspring).
This also has serious ramifications going BACKWARDS, i.e. ,
- Can you be absolutely sure that you yourself aren't a bastard?
- How can you be sure that neither of your two parents was?
- What about your 4 grand-parents?
- What about your 8 great-grand-parents?
- What about your 16 great-great-grand-parents?
- What about your 32 great-great-great-grand-parents?
- What about your 64 great-great-great-great-grand-parents?
- What about your 128 great-great-great-great-great-grand-parents?
- What about your 256 great-great-great-great-great-great-grand-parents?
- What about your 512 great- great-great-great-great-great-great-grand-parents?
When we go back 10 generations, we all have a total of 1022 ancestors. According to the bible, if a single one of these was a "bastard", then there's no room for us or any of our children in "the assembly of the Lord".
- He orders cannibalism: Isaiah 49:26 says, "I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine. Then all mankind will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior, your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob."
Lev. 26: 28-29
, Jer. 19:9,
Ezek. 5: 9-10.
and lastly,
- God violated his own laws on numerous occasions:
- John 4:8 and 4:16
say God is love and 1 Cor. 13:4 says love is not jealous or boastful.
Yet, Deut. 4:24 says God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
- In Luke 6:27
God tells us to love our enemies and do good to those who hate you. Yet, in Gen. 19:24 he rained fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah because they had rejected him.
- Prov. 6:16 says, "there are 6 things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him" and the 19th verse says one of these is, ". . .a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. " Yet, Gen. 11:9 says, "That is why it was called Babel -because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. How can the Lord hate those who sow dissension when he himself is responsible for all the confusion that emerged from his creation of a multitude of languages.
- In Matt. 26:52 Jesus said, "Put up thy sword. . .for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." Yet, in Ezek. 21:5 God says, "Then all the people will know that I the Lord have drawn my sword from its scabbard; it will not return again." If what Jesus said is true, why has the Lord not perished.
- And finally, Job 5:2 says, "For wrath kills the foolish man, and envy slays the silly one." Displaying wrath is to be considered anathema; yet Psalm 21:9, ". . .the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them", Ex. 31:10, ". . .let me alone that my wrath may wax hot against them", and Num. 16:46, ". . .for there is wrath gone out from the Lord") clearly show wrath is one of the Lord's more prominent traits.
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How long is it going to take for followers of Jesus Christ to realize that they cannot follow both Jesus and the god who is responsible for so much murder and cruelty? How long is it going to take for them to realize that they cannot follow both Jesus and the so-called "god" who is responsible for so much injustice, murder and cruelty?
As the great French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist Voltaire wrote long ago (1694 - 1778) "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
If the God that I believe in exists, then he or she may well have more respect for atheists who use their God-given intelligence than for "believers" who don't.
One of the favorite sayings of Albino Luciani, the future Pope John Paul the First, (whom I argue at http://JesusWouldBeFurious.Org/murderedpope certainly didn't die as the Catholic Church claims from "natural causes") was
"Never be afraid to stand up for what is right, whether your adversary be your parent, your peer, your teacher, your politician, your preacher, or even your God."
So spoke Albino Luciani |
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How can a clergyman badmouth God so ?
If I may, I would like to call upon the services of a very good lawyer, named Thomas Jefferson, who had some pretty serious reservations about "God's Word" and expressed them well in a famous work of his:
The Jefferson Bible -
The Life and Morals of Jesus"
Jefferson didn't trust any of the Christian churches of
his day, but that didn't prevent him from appreciating the
genius of Jesus himself. His introduction reads:
"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern,
which have come under my observation, none
appear to me so pure as that of Jesus. . . A more
beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen."
He described his own work as "a paradigma of his
doctrines," made by cutting the texts out of the
book and arranging them on the pages of a blank book,
in a certain order of time or subject.
He told John Adams that he was rescuing the Philosophy
of Jesus and the "pure principles which he taught,"
from the "artificial vestments in which they have been
muffled by priests, who have travestied them into
various forms as instruments of riches and power for
themselves." After having selected from the
evangelists "the very words only of Jesus,"
he believed "there will be found remaining the most
sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever
been offered to man."
Unlike many observers, Jefferson was able to separate Christianity from its representatives:
"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind."
- Thomas Jefferson to Moses Robinson, 1801. ME 10:237
Like Jefferson, I have the highest appreciation for much that is wonderful in the bible, but rather than allow the baby to be thrown out with the dirty bath water, so to speak, I think it behooves those who want to save and promote what is good and noble in the bible to agree with those who recognize what is not good and noble in that same bible and do what we all do with dirty bath water once we are through with it, i.e. get rid of it.
If only more Christian clergy took this approach, then instead of driving intelligent, well-informed "free-thinkers" away from "god", more of them might come to share not just Thomas Jefferson's appreciation of Jesus of Nazareth, whose liberal teaching I feature of LiberalsLikeJesus.Org
, but even of the noble, humble, loving, compassionate god of the Hebrew bible, to whom I devote the many pages of godvsgreed.html.
The study of the bible called Evolution of God argues that some parts of the bible which were created when the Hebrews were in dire straits are harsh and bitter, while parts which were created in better times are much more optimistic and mellow.
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Uses to which the Bible's God has been put :
Just a few, but very noteworthy, examples:
For a perfect example of the way "Christians" have used the worst features of the bible to guide their behavior, see the way the Pilgrims justified their crimes against the Native Americans. And here's the way the Roman Catholics were informed by their bibles to persuade American's Native population to embrace "the one true faith"! :
| The price paid for not embracing "the One True Faith" :
"They built a long gibbet, low enough for the toes to touch the ground and prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles. When the Indians were thus still alive and hanging, the Spaniards tested their strength and their blades against them, ripping chests open with one blow and exposing entrails, and there were those who did worse. Then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."
{ American Holocaust, by David E. Stannard, p. 72 }
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If this teaching of Paul's is true, then any Christian who has founds fault with any ruler, including Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Min, Castro, Milosovich, or more recently, Saddam Hussein, has gone against God's Word. And far from being heroes, those who fought and died to remove these dictators and mass-murderers, are sinners that we be ashamed of. Paul doesn't allow for the slightest bit of "interpretation". He makes the same point over and over again, that we should treat any and all rulers as God's very own appointees to whatever office they hold, be it governor, king, emperor, president, prime minister, secretary general, or Führer.
Ultra-Conservative Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia doesn't question the inspiration of this passage. In fact, he uses it in an article ( in 2002) in defense of the death penalty.) He sees submission (to one's government) as desirable - and possibly the very definition of faith. He quotes St. Paul, "For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."
"The Lord," Mr. Scalia explained in Chicago, "repaid - did justice - through His minister, the state.
This view, according to Mr. Scalia, once represented the consensus "not just of Christian or religious thought, but of secular thought regarding the powers of the state. . . That consensus has been upset, I think, by the emergence of democracy." Mr. Scalia wishes to rally the devout against (what he perceives as) democracy's errors (such as its tendency to reject capital punishment - which the Bible supports). "The reaction of people of faith to this tendency of democracy to obscure the divine authority behind government should not be resignation to it, but the resolution to combat it as effectively as possible," he said in Chicago.
Mr. Scalia is right about one thing. Modern democracy did upset the so-called "divine authority" of the state. That has usually been considered by Americans to have been a step forward. Not so as far a Conservatives like Roman Catholic Supreme Court Justice Scalia are concerned.
Since Leviticus 24:17 requires that "He that killeth any man shall surely be put to death", who is to do the killing? And who then kills the first executioner? And who then kills the second executioner? And who then kills the third, and the fourth, and the fifth, etc.?
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